The Landabout Blog

Making Property Management Manageable.

Security Deposits: Proper Care & Feeding

Most of us remember that first college apartment, when we handed over a cobbled together security deposit knowing (thanks to the warnings of older, wiser off campus friends) that we’d never see it again.  A few residences and a lot of life experience later, we’ve learned that security deposits actually can be refunded, and that your first college landlord was probably right to keep a few dollars for that scummy shower and beer stained carpet.  Looking at the security deposit from the other side of the equation is a lot more complicated than handing over a check and kissing your money goodbye.  If you’re a seasoned landlord or a first time investor, there are some helpful things to know about the proper handling of deposits.

The money isn’t yours.

Security deposits are funds that should be strictly held aside, and only applied to losses if and when they occur.  Unlike rent, a security deposit technically belongs to your tenant until they move out.  Many states even require that the funds be held in a separate bank account, which may be the wisest option for everyone when it comes to keeping your books in order.  Regardless, it’s important to note that you could potentially be asked to refund all or part of the money with little notice (as few as 14 days after move out in some states), and this is where security goes both ways.  Keeping the money separate and available for dispensation immediately after inspection will ensure that you won’t be accused of breaking the law or treating your tenants unfairly.

Time is of the essence.

A majority of states have defined guidelines on the timeframe in which security deposits must be returned, and again, this can be as little as 14 days.  Since move out inspections typically take place on or around your tenant’s last day in the unit, it’s best to begin work on a deposit resolution immediately.  Any monies you retain should be noted in a written document as an itemized list.  The easiest way to manage this list and set expectations is to make your move in and move out inspection documents identical.  When damage occurs, be sure you have set consistent replacement pricing for items like nail holes and shower doors.  Get multiple estimates for larger repairs, and keep them among your other documentation.  When it comes to returning full or partial deposit amounts, please note that different rules often apply in cases of improper notice, abandonment, or eviction.  A tenant’s failure to provide you with a proper forwarding address may also buy you additional days or weeks.

A security deposit amount is often limited.

Even if your new tenant is starting to look like a disaster in waiting, the law may limit the amount of money you can charge for a security deposit.  Often this is equal to two months’ rent, but overwhelmingly the number most landlords and property managers use is just a single month’s  rent.  Be mindful of using a security deposit as extra protection when renting to “high risk” renters (those with less than optimal credit histories, inconsistent employment,  or a troubled renting record).  The first rule of deposits should be separation from rental income, and it’s best to ask for peace of mind from iffy tenants by requiring the first and last months’ rent instead.  If your comfort level is not where it should be after this step, it may be time to evaluate the prospect more closely and decide if the lease is worth the risk.

Failure to return a deposit can be costly.

Avoiding landlord-tenant legal battles is an ongoing process that doesn’t end when your renter moves out.  Delaying a deposit return or failing to provide a tenant with specifics on what portion was kept and why can cost thousands.  Failure to return a deposit in Connecticut can result in a landlord owing twice the deposit amount back to the tenant, and in nearly all states tenants tend to win these battles.  As with most areas of concern in property management, careful documentation and a sense of urgency will keep disputes to a minimum.

Though we’ve done our best to overview the issues surrounding security deposits, please take phrases like “most states” and “some places” as signals that there are sharp legal differences from state to state.  Know your state’s rules.  Start with resources like this one to learn the basics, and always check in with your local government to make sure you’re operating within the rules.

Filed under: Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Real Estate Investment, Urban Renewal, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Good reads: This week in property management

A bizarre bedbug twist: Former Fox News reporter sues the landlord, case is thrown out.  If that doesn’t make you itchy enough, more on bedbugs.

A payout in waiting, another reminder that maintenance is king.

Interesting Q & A on month to month, when your tenants are house hunting.

Doubly good news in the Twin Cities, low vacancy and rent hikes to come.  And in Denver too!

How do you look at prospects’ income and obligations?  A new Harvard study says renters spend more.  The WSJ says it has to do with scarcity in affordable housing.

Cuomo gets aggressive about rent rules.

Tenant-Landlord coalition in Vancouver warns of supply trouble ahead in the local market

According to one analysis, rapidly rising food costs may soon encroach on tenants’ ability to pay rent.

What not to do about rising energy costs.

If you’ve made a few touchdowns, career-wise, maybe you can spring for Madden’s digs.  If that feels cramped, how about Lichtenstein?

Filed under: General Information, Links, Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Ramblings, Real Estate Investment, Urban Renewal, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Spring: Recharge, renew…renovate!

Spring has a way of making us grateful for it’s presence, and often injects us with endless ideas and energy.  It’s the season when we all start seeking out newness and freshness, and your prospective tenants are no exception.  If your property is looking a little winter-worn and you’re questioning the impression you’re making, remember that there are a number of cost effective ways to make it bloom again.  Before the dog days of summer melt all of that extra drive away, here are some ways to take advantage (and hopefully sign a few more leases too!).  Please note that costs are approximate, and will vary according to the size of your property and number of buildings you manage:

>$100-$250:

  • Plant a tree or trees.  Choose shade varieties to increase curb appeal and eventually cut energy costs.
  • Add flowers.  Select colorful, hardy blooms that make a bold statement.
  • Purchase new signage.  Spread the word about spring specials with fresh signs that can be seen from major roads.

$250-$500:

  • Install pavers and/or communal outdoor seating.  Allow tenants to enjoy the great outdoors from a comfortable, nature focused seating area.
  • Update artwork and/or accessories in common areas.  Lighten up colors to create an inviting space that makes prospects want to stay.
  • Have carpets and flooring professionally cleaned.  Another way to brighten up the clubhouse or leasing office, clean floors are a great way to welcome spring.

$500-$1,000:

  • Have your building(s) powerwashed.  A quality professional powerwashing treatment will rid your buildings of dingy winter gray.
  • Carpet or professional flooring cleaning for common areas.  Start cleaning from the ground up to make a good first impression.
  • Add outdoor and/or indoor lighting.  New lighting can dramatically change a space, make it more inviting, and increase safety.
  • Consult with a designer.  Invest in an hour or two with a professional designer to determine how to make the most of what your property already has, and map a plan for future changes.

$1,000+:

  • Install new windows.  This can be a costly project, but pays for itself in energy savings and tenant appeal.
  • Update appliances.  Energy efficiency can apply here too, particularly if the appliances in your units are older.
  • Repave or repair parking surfaces.  With planning, a repaving project can be done with minimal inconvenience for tenants.  The final result can reduce accidents, and wear and tear on your tenants’ vehicles.
  • Replace siding or repaint structure(s).  Exterior improvements are worth the expense when your property looks rundown or neglected.  Choose neutral colors to give your investment more staying power.

Filed under: General Information, Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Real Estate Investment, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Multifamily Financing 101

If you’re thinking of purchasing a rental property or expanding your current portfolio, you may be overwhelmed by one of the first but perhaps most important steps: obtaining financing.  Recent changes in the industry brought on by the financial downturn and housing crisis have forced more stringent policies, and it may seem as though capital for your project is nowhere to be found.

A bit of good news, then.  It’s still possible to invest and make money, even if you have to do more research on creative ways to get started.  Before you go to the bank, you’ll want to ask yourself a few basic questions:

What Do You Want to Buy?

The purchase of a rental property is generally divided into two groups: one to four units (owner occupied and otherwise) can be purchases that look almost like a single family buy, and can qualify under a number of different financing products.  Structures with more than five units generally require commercial financing, but may also afford you the personal protections of business financing that you would not be eligible for with a traditional mortgage for a duplex, as an example.  Multifamily loan rates can be slightly higher (sometimes by 2% or more) and often mature faster, but assuming you can afford the loan you qualify for the accelerated payoff schedule will only help your bottom line.

What Will You Need?

As with any other major purchase backed by a bank note, prepare to be subjected to the financial equivalent of a colonoscopy.  In addition to 20% down, we also recommend having six months in cash reserves.  Reserves should include funds for the mortgage payment, taxes & insurance, maintenance, and utilities.  Naturally, you will need to gather personal and business financial statements, at least two years’ tax returns, and any documented history of running a rental property.  Before the sale is finalized, you will also need details on the rent roll, regulated units, unit numbers, and room/bath count, as well as photographs and a detailed physical description including square footage.  Your personal credit will be scrutinized more closely, so run a check on your report and dispute any incorrect information.  You will want a score in the 700′s in order to make the transaction as smooth as possible. 

Where Do I Start?

Take the time to find a reputable lender who specializes in multifamily loans.  Shop and compare, and ask what percentage of a lender’s business is in investment properties.  If the answer is low or the firm doesn’t have the information available, it’s best to keep looking.  Investing in and of itself is a proposition with enough risk, and feeling confident in the initial financial advice you’re receiving is priceless.

Is There Anything Else I Should Know?

  • Owner financing is not terribly common, but it may be an option depending on the property and the market.  Given that these arrangements are typically cheaper than bank financing, it’s an option that can be ideal during the intial phases of your investment.  And, if handled through an attorney the property can be owner-financed temporarily until sufficient equity is established and a bank loan can be obtained.
  • If you’re already in business and doing well, you may be able to use the equity you have in other personal or investment properties.  In many cases, this is the ideal option.  However, always carefully consider using your personal residence as collateral. 
  • Fannie Mae works with a network of DUS (Delegated Underwriting Servicing) lenders to provide multifamily loans of all types.  DUS lenders are screened for stability and specialize in multi-family lending, and should also be able to answer questions about ways the government can help you grow your business and meet U.S. housing needs. 
  • Special financing may be available for senior, student, or low income housing.  If you’re looking into a project to target any of these populations, consult with your lender about maximizing your incentives.

Rental income is often referred to as “passive” income, but in our current market very few people are able to watch their bank accounts flourish from the golf course.  Another common misconception is that a property will “pay for itself” in rental income.  Sure–in a best case scenario it will–but if the past few years have taught us anything, it’s that best cases aren’t terribly reliable.  Always finance and invest with the worst case scenario in mind.

Filed under: General Information, Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Real Estate Investment, Urban Renewal, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Good reads: This week in property management

Landlords take a stand in Minnesota and file suit over new ordinances.

From Australia, another lesson in checking and rechecking the insurance coverage on your investment property.

There must be at least 1,000 other ways to get rid of squirrels…

 Proposed federal spending cuts could have an effect on Section 8, inspections, dollars available for repairs, etc.

The Wall Street Journal on the very high stakes, different game for developers in China

Good things to come?  Rental vacancies expected to drop, rents expected to rise

Just rolled out:  Zillow takes on rental estimates.

Always a party:  rent control in the spotlight (again) in NYC.  And, in the city’s unique housing market, is it better to rent or buy

This week in “we can’t make this up”…Missing property report and squatters have a go at starting a school in Guy Ritchie’s mansion, currently under renovation.

Filed under: Links, Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Ramblings, Real Estate Investment, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Five things you should know about rental concessions

Depending on your market, rental concessions have either become common or ubiquitous.  They do have a lot of good qualities–they can help you close leases, lock in renewals, and keep your units full.  But, like most seemingly sunny concepts in  life and property management they do have a dark side.  If you’re using rent concessions, or looking at them because your competition does, it’s important to remember:

1. You may be violating the Fair Housing Act

When it comes to complying with Fair Housing rules, common sense and your own innate sense of fairness will be your best guides.  Concession offerings should be one size fits all, and should not be negotiated on the fly on an individual basis.  To make sure this happens, put proposed perks in writing and train all employees on the specifics each time you offer a new deal.  Offers should clearly state that you will not discriminate based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin, familial status, disability, or any other class factor.  For the most protection, keep notes on the concessions your prospects request, as well as the arrangements offered and those that were accepted or declined. 

2.  Consider your concessions’ effect on your current tenants and the community 

No one wants to feel like they missed the deal, and that’s exactly the sort of nasty feeling you don’t want to saddle your current loyal tenants with.  Be mindful of this factor when you’re at the drawing board, and regularly think of ways to reward the residents who’ve been with you.  In some markets and in some economic climates, you may have to give a little to fill a building, then give a little more to keep it full.  In addition, try to look at the breaks you’re offering from an outsider’s perspective.  Are you giving away the farm every time you sign a lease?  If so, you may be giving the entire community the impression that you’re on your last legs.  Not very good for business, and not very good for the bottom line.

3. All rent concessions should be added to the lease

Here is one dead horse that deserves another beating.  Get it in writing.  Always.  Often called a concession addendum or a temporary rent concession rider, these little notes are extremely vital.  They will clearly spell out what incentives you’re offering, when the term ends, and any additional consequences for breaking the lease (tenants are often required to pay back rent concessions if a lease is broken prematurely).

4. Reduced revenue and concessions can hurt your ability to obtain financing

Banks and lenders will look at your revenue stream in terms of the true numbers, not what you’re “supposed” to be making.  Even a subtle difference like a $75/month rent deduction can have enough of an effect on your bottom line to make lenders look twice, particularly when lending is sparse.  From this perspective, what may look like a small rate cut may be tremendously costly if you find yourself faced with a major repair or other unexpected expense.

5. Concessions now or updates later?  Think about the long term value of your property

This is a tricky line to traverse.  Nothing is quite so ugly as a vacant building, but if you’re costing your business thousands or more each year in tenant incentives it may only lead to more ugliness.  Updates and improvements–beyond basic upkeep and maintenance–are generally strong draws for prospective tenants.  Renting at the bargain basement rate or otherwise losing cashflow over a long period of time makes fewer of these improvements feasible and can set up a dangerous, losing cycle.  Whenever you’re deciding what will woo best, always consider the long term impact.

Filed under: General Information, Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Real Estate Investment, Urban Renewal, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Good reads: This week in property management

Insecurity deposit.  SF landlord pays big for deposit swiping controversy.

Another craigslist rental scam leaves a family of four without housing.

Ever wonder who is responsible if your tenant is the victim of a break in?  This, plus questions of running a business from a rental residence answered.

Adding your two cents to tenants’ credit reports.  What do we think, property owners?

Are you an accidental landlord?  Tips on navigating tax time.

He just didn’t seem that creepy.  Quebec landlord accused of peeping in on his tenants.

Tenants need help figuring out who pays more for the big closet, and how much?  Enter Split The Rent.  Now we just need the app that removes all the awkward from settling up the dinner check when you’re dining out with *those* friends.

Denver stays hot:  Rental home vacancies at an all time low.

More good news?  Okay.  Better than elsewhere job growth keeps Boston’s multifamily in good shape.

Why do they move? Renters move for jobs, flexibility, money…some info to help you find your next prospect.

Energy consumption still a big unknown in multifamily, the space is left out of Obama’s Better Building Initiative as a result.

They must be reeeeeally good cigars:  Man agrees to pay tenants in a neighboring unit $2,000 every time he lights up.

 

Filed under: General Information, Green Building, Links, Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Real Estate Investment, Urban Renewal, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Understanding or unbelievable? When, how, and if to break the rules

So much about Tara Smiley’s post on Multi-Family Insiders got us thinking, but in particular we wondered how much is too much when it comes to breaking with your standards in order to close the deal.  Playing risky business with a renter’s credit history is one thing, but what about things like pet policies and criminal background checks?  You’re no doubt keeping an eye on your comps the way Tara is, and if you haven’t gone shopping in awhile you may want to go have a look.  While she saw a few cases of complete disregard for the traditional “rules”, you may find that things in your market are more subtle.  It pays to know about a few of the strings being loosened, and what they mean for you and your business.

Is Fido (the pitbull) a no no?

Pets, dogs in particular, will always be an issue with devotees on either side claiming they have the answer.  Many pet behaviorists and animal care experts claim that no breed is inherently dangerous, but there really is no fudging the numbers when it comes to animal aggression, injuries, and certain breeds.

That said, keep in mind that Teddy Roosevelt had a Pitbull in the White House.  Because of the human habit of training and breeding aggressive animals for sport no matter what, establishing rules based on a handful of breeds has proven to be an exercise in tail chasing (so to speak).  For instance, if Pitbulls get banned or restricted, you’ll almost always see a rise in Rottweilers.  Or Dobermans.  And yes, there have even been recorded cases of Cocker Spaniel attacks.  Statistics aside, problems, damage, and lawsuits have come from full range of multi-family dwelling animals.

The “right” answer when it comes to pets may simply be good judgment and your own instinct. Animals, like your tenants, are individuals.  Ask the right questions–find out if the pet has ever lived in a rental property before, if the animal has been to obedience training, and ask to speak to the animal’s vet.  Obviously, no animal who displays aggressive behavior should be welcome, and be clear about reserving the right to immediately remove any pet that does.

Convicted Arsonist?  Sure, come on in.

Second chances are a good thing, but how likely are you to be the one handing them out?

If your prospect is coming to you with open communication about a criminal past, you may already be one step ahead.  Let’s face it, even people who’ve made poor decisions need a place to live.  When it comes to deciding where to draw your lines here, it may be helpful to consider why you’re interested in a criminal history in the first place.  It’s not just because you want another form to fill out and another fee to pay.  You check because you want to do as much as you can to ensure the safety of everyone in your community.  Case by case?  It may be cliche, but not all criminal backgrounds are alike.  Should you consider the sex offender or the armed robber?  Not advisable.  When it comes the one time offender who screwed up 7 years ago, you may wish to take a closer look and consider that second chance.

Looking at credit where credit is due.

It’s true that credit has changed, but to say it no longer matters at all as Tara was told is a little far fetched.  If you have to make a spreadsheet to keep track of a tenant’s co-signers or, worse, you don’t even run a credit report, you may have too much slack in the reins.  It doesn’t appear that we’re out of the mortgage crises yet, and you will be taking to prospects with some pretty serious negative marks.  Giving these folks a housing opportunity is one thing, but turning a blind eye to those with chronic issues (and maybe even a negative rental history!) is quite another.  Pretend it’s 2005, and look at credit.  Then remember that it’s 2011 and listen.

At the end of the day, you’ll find that in any economic environment you’ll have competitors who will undercut you–and potentially themselves–to take the business.  But is it truly the business you want?  Shopping the, ah, eager community down the block will only give you a clearer picture of where you are and aren’t comfortable when it comes to bending the rules.  Remember that there will always be the guys signing off on that pet tiger and chasing prospects out the door with free televisions.  Decide where your line is, and know that it’s okay to stand firm by it.

Filed under: General Information, Links, Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Real Estate Investment, Urban Renewal, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Please hold the animals: Renting to college students

“Who dropped a whole truckload of fizzies into the varsity swim meet? Who delivered the medical school cadavers to the alumni dinner? Every Halloween, the trees are filled with underwear. Every spring, the toilets explode.”

–Dean Wormer, National Lampoon’s Animal House

Ah, college.  The time in life so bursting with memories that many of us look back on it with a wistful fondness.  And maybe a pinch of horror.  Some of us more horror than others.

If you’re fortunate enough to own property in a college community, you’re either just beginning to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of renting to students, or you’ve already looked at the risks and rewards.  Regardless, college communities are target rich–new prospective tenants roll into town two to three times a year–and there is no question that renting to them can be highly profitable.  From a business perspective, eliminating the student population from your potential tenant pool makes very little sense.

So how to decide if renting to students is right for you?  Contrary to all the horror stories you may have heard, most students do not move in hellbent on hosting five parties a week and destroying everything they can.  In fact, if you look back on your own experience you may even remember some studying and quiet Sunday afternoons.  You can and should expect more damage and a few mistakes, but an inexperienced tenant doesn’t have to be an impossible one.  In fact, some of the extra care required of college landlords may be helpful for all landlords.  When it comes to dealing with new or inexperienced renters, care is the first word.

If you’re thinking of opening your doors to college students, study this.

  • Expect higher than average repair costs and damage. Making your property a no party zone is sort of rolling out the welcome mat for mockery and defiance.  Unless you’re lucky enough to rent to the campus exceptions, parties and gatherings will, more than likely, take place at some point.  Prepare to repaint as often as each turnover season, and replace carpet on an accelerated schedule.  Build these additional costs into the monthly rent and charge a security deposit that makes you feel secure (and complies with any of your state’s security deposit limits or maximums).   As always, be clear in your lease language that your tenant is responsible for major damages and losses.
  • Every man is *not* for himself. College students tend to live together, and college students tend to be a bit transient.  When it comes to collecting the rent in full, neither of these tendencies is your concern.  When screening and signing leases with multiple parties, each enters the agreement as though he or she has full responsibility for the rent.  If Joe + Mark + Brad becomes just Joe, Joe agrees to pay Mark’s 1/3 and Brad’s 1/3 until the lease ends or you both agree to a sublease.  It’s best to allow no exceptions.
  • Use one year leases, charge more for school year leases. For some college students, a “year” in your property is considered August to May, which makes yours a very cold summer.  Because some students will always choose to leave for break, it makes sense to offer a 9-10 month lease at a premium and/or make subleasing options available.  While longer committments are preferable, you may find that shortened leases are helpful when it comes to making repairs, painting, etc. and getting units ready for new fall tenants.  Particularly if you’ve cushioned the financial hit ahead of time.
  • For credit and other screening, talk to mom and dad.  Running a credit report on your student tenant may not be particularly helpful.  At this stage of the game, your tenant(s) may have little to no credit history, but it’s a fact that comes in handy.  Involving a student’s parent or guardian in the transaction is a wise move no matter what, not only to insure that your financial interest is backed but to help mitigate party problems.  Of course it’s not true for everyone, but having a parent’s phone number at your disposal when noise or damage gets out of hand can be a quick, effective solution…particularly if mom and dad are footing all or part of the bill.  Parent co-signers should be a rule when a student’s credit history is insufficient, and you may even wish to consider it a rule for all student tenants, even those with a history you’re comfortable with.  While you’re talking, take note of the parent’s interest level, willingness to cooperate with rules, and questions.  Most apples don’t fall far from the tree, and you may be able to learn a lot about your new tenant by watching mom and dad.
  • Assume they’re all mama’s boys and pampered princesses–save your appliances! While it’s a scary thought to imagine a 19 year old who hasn’t touched a dishwasher or dryer, they’re rare but out there.  You can’t guarantee that they’ll be read, but you should include a handout of appliance usage instructions in a new tenant packet.  Also helpful are large, easy to read signs in communal laundry areas specifying the do’s and don’ts of washer and dryer use.  Insulting one or two “domestic experts” is worth it if you can save yourself one kitchen flood or prevent an appliance replacement.
  • Think extra security during breaks. Nothing is more appealing to would be criminals than apartments containing more electronics than furniture that are  known to be deserted for a month.  If you don’t have onsite management, prepare for semester breaks by adding security to protect against break ins and vandalism.  It can be as simple as extra lighting programmed with timers, as complex as outsourcing a security service.  Anything you choose to do will protect your property and give your tenants extra peace of mind.
  • No tolerance: Police visits, rent problems, and unauthorized guests.  Again, most college students are not there to cause trouble, but the ones who are will show themselves pretty readily.  Your lease should include some no tolerance issues and the consequences for violation.  If your property suddenly becomes a known problem house for the police, or you get the sense that it’s filled with squatters, or timely rent payments are becoming a fantasy, it’s best to cut your losses and find a new tenant or tenants.  If there is an upside to taking action in these extreme cases, it’s knowing that most of those kids won’t stick around long enough to bad mouth you to the college set.  If they do, people rarely trust the word of the guy majoring in beer pong anyway.

Filed under: General Information, Links, Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Real Estate Investment, Urban Renewal, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Good reads: This week in property management

Security concerns?  Cut out the middle man and just rent out the police station.

Secondhand smoke…is it worth $2million?

The good, the bad, and the unfinanced:  Multifamily demand up, cash backing still hard to come by.

New Hampshire officially makes cable a privilege, not a right.

Interesting tax question for owners of mobile homes offering Section 8.

In the UK, trouble on the rental scene…more tenants late at year’s end.

Floods in Australia, the rent is still due.

Sacramento stays steady.  Good things to come here at home in 2011?

Going to the Big Game?  Check out this sweet manse for rent…your daily tab starts at $15k.  If Hollywood is more your style, you can pick up Orlando Bloom’s bachelor pad for a mere $18K/month.

 

 

Filed under: General Information, Links, Property Maintenance, Property Management Topics, Real Estate Investment, Urban Renewal, , , , , , , , , , , , ,

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